When Kellen Manning took his first social media job at Boston University, he was a one-person team and he got creative about finding content and creators. He used organic social listening and monitoring practices to find members of the community who were already creating great content and built a strategy around UGC. Now as a director, he continues this practice, building it into his team’s process, and they’ve extended it to searching for faculty creators.
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When Kellen Manning took his first social media job at Boston University, he was a one-person team and he got creative about finding content and creators. He used organic social listening and monitoring practices to find members of the community who were already creating great content and built a strategy around UGC. Now as a director, he continues this practice, building it into his team’s process, and they’ve extended it to searching for faculty creators.
Guest Name: Kellen Manning
Guest Social: Linkedin and Twitter
Guest Bio: Kellen currently works as the Director of Digital Public Relations for the Office of Strategic Communications at Penn State University where he oversees the long-term strategy of the flagship Penn State social media accounts and the social media team. In the past, he has worked at Boston University, MIT, and Harvard in digital and social media roles across alumni relations, student life, admissions, and undergraduate communications.
[00:00:00] Jenni: Welcome to Confessions of a Higher Ed Social Media Manager, a podcast that addresses the do's, don'ts, and dynamics of the digital ecosystem specific to higher education. I'm your host, Jenni Li Fowler. Join me every other week for discussions with some of the best minds in higher education social media management and marketing.
[00:00:27] Confessions of a Higher Ed Social Media Manager is a part of the Enrollify Network, a robust collection of podcasts designed to help higher education professionals like you grow. Explore our other shows at enrollify. org or check out some of my personal favorites linked in the show notes below.
[00:00:45] Enrollify is made possible by Element 451, the leading AI powered, all in one student engagement platform helping institutions create meaningful, personalized, and engaging interactions with students. [00:01:00] Learn more at element451. com
[00:01:12] I'm super excited to have Kellen Manning here with me today. Kellen currently works as the Director of Digital Public Relations for the Office of Strategic Communications at Penn State University, where he oversees the long term strategy of the flagship Penn State social media accounts and the social media team.
[00:01:30] And in the past, he has worked at Boston University. MIT and Harvard in digital and social media roles across alumni relations, student life, admissions and undergraduate communications. Helen. Hello. Welcome. Glad to be here. Thank you. I'm so glad you're here. I think it's just fitting that you are. My first guest on confessions of a higher ed social media manager, because I feel like you were there at the start of my journey at
[00:01:59] Kellen: [00:02:00] MIT.
[00:02:00] Yeah, you were just like a voice on a, on a phone call, random phone call, asking me about a job, asking me a job you're applying. Yeah,
[00:02:08] Jenni: exactly. I was like, I think I'm going to apply for this job. Can you tell me more? And you were always super welcoming and super supportive. And I'm a real fan of how you, um, you, you know, how you go about managing teams.
[00:02:21] So let's start off with how you got into social media. Did, did it find you or did you find
[00:02:28] Kellen: it? I think technically it's a little bit of both. It was completely accidental. I remember, uh, like 2009, I had, I was looking for. What could be my final project in grad school? I had no idea. And at the time, like Twitter was just becoming like a thing.
[00:02:44] Like most of the tweets at the time were like everyone teaching people how to use Twitter. It was like Ashton Kutcher and like Alyssa Manlano, like giving advice and quest love. It was crazy. Um, And then Facebook was really big. And then there were a few other ones like Tumblr was just was still just around the corner.
[00:02:59] But I was [00:03:00] like, Oh, okay. And what if I decide to call a bunch of like municipalities around the country and ask them how they're using social media and if they have a strategy and then build a report based off how people are doing it. Let's see what that is. And in the meantime, I was going, I went to work for, uh, the municipality I lived in, um, to like, be like their digital person as like an unpaid intern for like the length of my, uh, my semester.
[00:03:28] And so what I came to, like, I call, I ended up calling people in North Carolina, Colorado, like all around the country, asking like, how are you using Facebook? How are you using social? Or like, what are your thoughts on it? Like what, and I just picking up a bunch of things and I put together this like social media report in like 2009 about like.
[00:03:43] How I thought that cranberry township, which is the place I worked in, how they should be utilizing social media, like the tips that I picked up from other schools, like what I think works. And then I just did that. And it was and then a flash forward. I'm looking for a job afterwards. And Boston University calls me to ask me if I have any experience.
[00:03:59] And I said, well, [00:04:00] nothing like actual, but I did do this. That I can send you and from there I got hired as a temp to be like their communications coordinator for the Alumni Association, where I was in charge of like their social media, their email marketing program, as well as their website content. Um, that's weird in 2000 in 2011, you could be in charge of all that as just a temp.
[00:04:23] It's crazy to think of it now, but like, but back then that was a very easily what you could be, uh, and then that's kind of how I just fell into it. And then from there, it's just kind of just building on.
[00:04:32] Jenni: Well, uh, you did a fantastic job apparently, and But yes, like I feel like these strategies have become and these tools have become more sophisticated and how we use them.
[00:04:44] So yes, we do not condone interns taking, taking charge of all of that. It's
[00:04:49] Kellen: funny because like, when I talk, I talk to like students, like when I get brought into classes or just like having conversations with people and I'm like, There is between being a temp and a director, a temp in 2011 [00:05:00] and a director in 2024, I'm not doing anything differently.
[00:05:04] Like I'm in, cause I was completely in charge of everything. No one even asked me what I was doing on Instagram in 2012 or Tumblr or Facebook. And I was just like learning and like failing and like making mistakes and then learning from those mistakes and building out what I thought made sense. And now today it's the only difference is like, I'm telling other people to do it based on things I learned.
[00:05:23] When I was like, not even a real employee, you were
[00:05:26] Jenni: the practitioner, like you did it and you learned it. So one thing I think that you do really uniquely, or, you know, maybe you were one of the first adopters was you use social listening and monitoring to recruit creators. Can you tell me a little bit?
[00:05:43] Kellen: About that. Yeah. I mean, because like, like I said, when you're like a temp that grew into a full time position, but you're, you're in charge of all these things. I didn't have a team of people I could go to. So I had to figure out how can I get help? Because I especially Boston University. I didn't go to Boston University [00:06:00] for the job.
[00:06:00] That was the first time I ever been to Boston. was when I got hired for that. So it's like I have to learn the culture. I have to do things to connect with alumni that bring in those memories. So I just started looking around and like asking the students who were interns and other in other groups around me and asking them questions in terms of trying to find content.
[00:06:16] And as I went further into other jobs, whether it be MIT or Harvard, I started paying attention to what our audience was posting, whether it be alumni, students, faculty and staff. And then I started realizing people doing some really cool things that are highlighting Uh, the school we work for. So why, what's stopping me from just like reaching out to them directly, like looking for their email or sending them a DM and inviting them to come talk to me so I can learn more and then potentially work with them.
[00:06:40] And so I started kind of going forward with that and, uh, and it. And it kind of took off from there and a lot of really cool things to where like community engagement, community collaboration and user generated content kind of been became my staple that I kind of taken from that really started at MIT when I started doing like every week a student takes over [00:07:00] or like I started reaching out directly to people.
[00:07:02] I thought we're doing interesting things and saying, can I have this? Or can you do something similar for me? And now at Penn state, I have this team of people to where I'm directing them to do it, to where it's like, we're reaching out, whether we see someone doing something interesting on Tik it's not just a repost.
[00:07:16] It's like, Oh, they're doing something really cool. We could repost it, but why don't we just find their email address or just reach out to them directly on this platform and talk to them about it and see what we can kind of do in collaboration here.
[00:07:27] Jenni: Okay, let's unpack that a little bit. So at MIT, you were reaching out to students, right?
[00:07:33] A lot of them were students. Oh, okay. And so when you say I liked this, was it an image? Can you, can, was it a video?
[00:07:42] Kellen: It depends on the person. Like sometimes it can be like, I think this person is really funny. And I think the content they're posting or whether at the time, especially at the beginning of my team, it could be Tumblr, they're writing really cool things, or they're taking really great pictures or they're utilizing the platform in a way I haven't seen.
[00:07:57] Scene, but I like that could work for us [00:08:00] too. So it started off with just me reaching out to ask them questions. Like, why did you do this? What do you get out of this? Like, uh, how do you feel like the reaction is? And then once I get a feel for them and I'm like, Oh, I'd really like to work with this person.
[00:08:11] I get a good vibe from them. Uh, I bring up, well, would you want to do this? But for me, for a project I have in mind and we kind of go from there. Um,
[00:08:19] Jenni: I, I love that. And, and, and the response that you got was always positive.
[00:08:25] Kellen: Yes. And that was, I think that was the biggest lesson that like I had, because when I came into especially MIT, like, and I worked in their student life department to run their social media, they really didn't have a social presence at the time.
[00:08:36] So, like, I had to build that from scratch. And a lot of time, what it was letting people know that student life existed at MIT, because that was a new concept back in 2013, 14, when I worked there, because they're like, what is student life? Like, what do you, what do you do? And then, and then there was also this, uh, idea of from people where it's like, Well, MIT students don't really use social media that way.
[00:08:56] So you're not really going to be able to connect with them or engage with them. And so I just kind of [00:09:00] said that I'm going to prove that wrong. So I'm going to, I started reaching out to them and what I found was like, they had no point, uh, would anyone say no to me? Like a lot of them were like really excited just to, just for the opportunity to represent.
[00:09:14] Your institution, like, especially, especially if you lead it with, I think what you're doing is awesome. I don't want you to change anything about it, except like, just don't swear. Don't do anything to get me fired. Don't do anything to get you in trouble, but who you are like these things that you're posting.
[00:09:28] This is why this is what I like. And I give them examples. I'm like, I saw you did this. I love this. And if you could do the only thing I ask if you're going to work with us is just be yourself. Don't think about like, I bet they want me to sound this way because I don't feel like that's what connects people.
[00:09:42] Like, that's that's like, almost like. Okay. That's like brochured strategy from like the nineties and eighties.
[00:09:47] Jenni: It's not authentic, right? We want to hear like the authentic voice of the students and the character.
[00:09:54] Kellen: Exactly. And so, uh, and from there I've learned like anyone, if for the most part, 90%, 95 percent of the [00:10:00] people you reach out to are more than willing to help you, especially if you let them know that you're reaching out because you like what they're doing.
[00:10:07] Jenni: So flash forward. You know, you're a director now, you actually have a team, you have a team, but you still have brought that philosophy right with you and onto your team. So tell me, can you tell me what your team is doing?
[00:10:24] Kellen: Yeah. So basically we're kind of, uh, I believe that every part of your social presence should be used as a tool.
[00:10:31] It's not, these aren't just places where you go to post things and monitoring and listening shouldn't just be based off negative things. And so like, that means who are you following? Who's following you? Who are these people who are tagging you and like, look through their content and see what they're doing now with like the rise of Tik TOK and this idea of like algorithms and for you pages, who's popping up on your for you page is connected to your community.
[00:10:52] What's in what? And how can you and how are they doing the job that you that you're setting out to do is like showcasing your [00:11:00] institution and in the best light in a way that connects them with other people and could bring people in. And then once you see them doing those things, you're like, why can't they?
[00:11:09] Why can't we work with them a little bit? And whether it be reaching out them for a long term project, which is like internship roles to pay them, or it's just a one off to be like, Oh, we see that you that you do all these really cool things where you're going and you're part of the club figure skating team and every day you just record this and you're getting a ton of reaction on yours.
[00:11:27] Why don't we showcase that type of content here? We reach out to reach out to the student. We say, Hey, we like that. You do this. You want to do this for our pages kind of introducing you as you can do it on tick tock and do it on instagram. You're going to talk to your peers, prospective students and young alumni and showcase that experience or like.
[00:11:41] The biggest one we did so far was when we reached out to one of the acapella groups and we said, your content like takes off on your page. So can we showcase this experience for us? And they like remade like a version of a pitch perfect and, and like the riff off. And they did that in like, to date, it has almost 4 million views on Tik TOK and [00:12:00] over almost 2 million views on Instagram.
[00:12:01] And it's like utilizing these like stories.
[00:12:04] Jenni: And that's the idea that they came up with, right? You just said create something for us.
[00:12:09] Kellen: Yeah, we just said we set up the meeting. We introduce who we are. We talk about what we want to do, which is this idea of first you start off with show. Don't tell, which is the thing I got from M.
[00:12:17] I. T. Admissions. Actually, like that was a big part of that strategy. And I kind of brought it to Penn State. And then this idea of we want to treat Every part of this institution, whether it be campuses, whether it be the individual departments, students, faculty, staff, student groups, alumni as individual puzzle pieces that stand on their own, completely unique.
[00:12:36] And you can put them up there and it tells a story that's them. But then if you look at the whole thing. You get a feel for what Penn State is at this moment. And it's across that. And I think thinking of it that way really opens the floodgates for things such as like showing your thriving, diverse communities doing really cool things.
[00:12:53] And you can come to Penn State and succeed by just being yourself and like growing within the, in the directions that [00:13:00] you choose to grow. There's always a path here. And I think that's something I took with me from BU to MIT to Harvard to here.
[00:13:06] Jenni: I love that description of all pieces of the of a puzzle. I want to go back to what you said just a little bit earlier.
[00:13:14] You said, um, you know, you looked at for you who's coming up in your for you pages, like, sort of digging in, And it sounds like you're doing that this all organically within platform, I think, and I think a lot of times when people think social listening or monitoring, they think, oh, these are really, really expensive platforms or tools that you have to buy or, uh, or seek out.
[00:13:38] And I think a lot of this. Social, the social listening monitor can just be done within platforms organically. You just have to dig in a little bit, right?
[00:13:48] Kellen: Yeah, I agree 100%. Most, I'd say most of our monitoring is done that way. Like if we're monitoring for issues, it really helps to be able to use something like Hootsuite or Talkwalker or Brandwatch.
[00:13:57] Cause then you can kind of get this aggregate of like, what's the [00:14:00] conversation happening. But as we're looking to see what our community is doing, and that's the thing I push my team to do all the time. It's like we spend probably more time watching these channels and seeing what trends are popping up.
[00:14:11] What students are doing. Is there something cool happening in a department or a lab that we can spotlight? Are there new people that we don't know about? What are the perspective students saying about us that we can kind of amplify? Can we take videos that they're creating and mash them together to make a really cool?
[00:14:24] Like this is the new class, which Courtney, my assistant director, she did. She got. It was the most amazing thing. She just started realizing that a bunch of students were like, uh, they had like t shirt day when they picked their school and they were like doing this, like, Oh, Penn state, like across their chest.
[00:14:37] And she gathered like 15 videos and asked each individual student, like, Hey, can I use this? And just DM them all. And they were like, yes, sure. Yes, sure. And she ended up taking all the videos, downloading them, uh, smashing them together, using CapCut and put out this really cool video where it's just a bunch of just the students, like very happy that they got into Penn State.
[00:14:56] We posted that on, uh, TikTok and posted on Instagram [00:15:00] and it did really well. You see a bunch of high school. We already have a bunch of high school students that are mentioned. It's like, let me in, let me in. And this one is like, Oh, that's me. Oh, you're famous. And it's just like, kind of grew from there.
[00:15:09] And so like. You don't need all those tools, especially if you're just looking for collaborators. So like it's constantly just like digging in and then liking comments because that helps your for you go. The more Penn State centric content and Penn State students and alumni that we engage with on these platforms, the more we're going to get back and start seeing those so we can start seeing them.
[00:15:28] And then also keeping up like, Oh, we're noticing these trends. And if you look through our DMS, like our intern teams, they're. Constantly DMing our account with like trends that they're picking up that they can use later. Uh, so utilizing all parts of every single platform you have may not make up 100 percent of what you can get from like these super strong, powerful monitoring tool platforms that they, that exist, but it can get the job done and really create like a, and really help you create a sense of what your makes your place
[00:15:56] Jenni: unique.
[00:15:58] Totally. And, and I think that's [00:16:00] super smart. So, um, you mentioned trends and I'm just interested to know like how you handle trends or are they really important to your
[00:16:09] Kellen: strategy? They are mainly because they, the thing that trends like trends are basically like. Taking on what means did when means were thing.
[00:16:17] It's like, it's like this relatable content that's told through a funny way that helps you connect, that helps you feel human or helps you be able to connect with the human condition and experience. So like you pull in these funny jokes and they're always, they always seem silly, but then once you dig into them, like you realize, Oh, there's more to this than that.
[00:16:33] Like, there's a reason why so many people are using this and so many people have these like experiences. So we pull those in and we make sure if you're using a trend that not only connects with like. What's happening at our school, but it's also connecting with people who might just see it just because they relate to that situation.
[00:16:49] And that might lead to a student who felt like, I don't know about this school. And then that brings them and say, Oh, that's exactly how I would feel. I would feel intimidated. I'd feel nervous in that situation. That sounds like a fun thing to me. [00:17:00] Oh, that sounds like me. And that brings in more people to actually see the other things you're doing, which the stories you're trying to tell the quote unquote important things that you want to push when you're That's the idea of important is kind of like kind of fake to me, but because I think everything is important and that's the best way to do social.
[00:17:16] But, um, but yeah, so they're part of it. They can't be the only thing, but mixing them in, especially the ones that are first ones that are appropriate. Just like that makes in terms of just like being able to, uh, not lose your job is always good. Um, but all those, but there's always ones that you can say, Oh, I wonder how.
[00:17:33] And that's a big question that might that I push all the members of my team to ask is like, Oh, this cool. I wonder how it fits into Penn State, or I wonder how it fits into what we want to do, because it's basically a sickness at this point. Everything I see, whether it's at while working or on TV or on what I'm watching YouTube or out in the open, I'm like, I wonder how I could get that incorporate that into what we do on Penn State social.
[00:17:55] That's the question I ask myself all the time. That's
[00:17:58] Jenni: a great, that's, I [00:18:00] will incorporate that. That's a good, that's a great, um, um, practice, but pulling you back to the social media and, um, you know, the listening and the monitoring, you've started to reach out to faculty members. Is
[00:18:13] Kellen: that correct? Yeah, that's that's the goal.
[00:18:14] Like, I mean, uh, we reach out. We work with our, uh, because the way that our team set up is like, we're the social media team, but we're in an office called strategic communication within student communication. You have the proactive team, which reaches out to news. You have the news team. That's just push.
[00:18:28] Pushes in house things on our newsletters. You also have the science writers. You'll set the marketing team. Um, we collaborate with all of them. And so we work with the science writing team and the science research based team to where they can kind of, they, they say, Oh, there's this really cool story that there's this really cool research happening or these that.
[00:18:46] Might work on social if you're interested. I think one example that I have is, uh, one, one of our students, uh, one, not know one of our scientists named Addie. She said we had this tick researchers and she's titled this email tick talk on tick tock. And I was like [00:19:00] that we were like, yes. And so we like set up set up the meeting.
[00:19:03] I think it would be an awesome conversation. So we met with them and we found out more about what they do. It's like these three scientists and they just they through Penn State Extension School where they yeah. Just do tick research because in the middle of Pennsylvania, it's really big because depending on whether you're hunting or whether you're just walking through a wooded area, ticks are a major issue.
[00:19:20] So we were trying to figure out ways, like, how could we showcase this on, on social and offhandedly, like, well, sometimes we, we race the ticks and we're like, wait, what? Like, yeah, we set up. So we see how fast they are. So we compete and we were like, yes, go with that. And so, and we said, or are you, and we asked him, are you comfortable with like recording this yourself or sending us clips?
[00:19:41] And one of them was like, yeah, I'm on tick tock all the time. I think I can put it together. So they put together a really cool video where like the tip there, they set up three different types, species of ticks on like a racetrack in the office. And they just set them free, but then they highlight each one, how fast are, but then each.
[00:19:56] Take the spotlight. They give like some in depth research and knowledge about, Oh, this is the [00:20:00] take where this happens and this happened. This ticket brought up here. So, like, while it's funny and it's fun, you're also getting really cool information.
[00:20:08] Jenni: That is so cool. And, um, so you, you identify these potential topics and then you find The personalities.
[00:20:17] Is that sort of? And it seems like they're agreeable to it.
[00:20:21] Kellen: You know, that's the conversations always starts with what are you comfortable with doing? Like, whether it's a student, whether it's faculty, whether it's staff, it's always like, so what do you have experience doing? What are you comfortable trying?
[00:20:31] Um, and making them feel comfortable with the idea. It doesn't have to be perfect. Like we, I know we have this film team that does amazing things, but a lot of times for us on the social team to what we see is videos that aren't polished work. As long as we're like a friend about it, not trying to make it.
[00:20:45] Pretend to be something it's not to where this is just a fun video. Like you could tell it's recorded yourself. And I think make once they start feeling comfortable with that idea, then they kind of then who wants to do it can take the lead. Um, so that's that's basically what we're pushing. Like, we want to start working more with [00:21:00] our with researchers and faculty.
[00:21:01] And then we have our students doing the same thing coming up with these ideas to figure out ways to collaborate towards because we're you. Penn State. We're not just student life, so we have to make sure we're bringing everyone in and then also alumni in that same fashion. And it's
[00:21:13] Jenni: not just TikTok. I'm sure you, you know, find the content that fits the
[00:21:17] Kellen: channel.
[00:21:18] Yeah, I think we have six or seven channels. So we have Facebook, Twitter, slash X. TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, those are our main spaces, and some, some content goes across all platforms. We think it works there, but sometimes we go with things like, oh, this is just an Instagram story because our Instagram audiences are current students and young alumni.
[00:21:36] And we think this falls right into that sweet spot. Or this is just for TikTok. This is the only people are going to be interested in are the people who are, uh, 12 years old and higher who just want to who are learning about Penn State and just want to get excited about it. And it's like their dream school.
[00:21:49] So like this is directed towards those people who don't really know much about Penn State or not really much about the college experience, but they're in the beginning of thinking about it. So we want to connect with them there. Or if [00:22:00] it's linked in, we're like, Oh, so this is like more of the professionals platform.
[00:22:04] That's also kind of an older alumni base. The same thing with tiktok. So how can we connect with? How can we Get this group to remember that one, there's still value in your degree, especially on LinkedIn. So we want to push that idea of like value in the Penn State degree degree achievements that are happening.
[00:22:19] Like, these cool things are still happening here. While then there's also that aspect of it, where, like, on Facebook, you want to say, here's your opportunity to reminisce about the times you had at Penn State, or this is the experience that your sons or daughters are having on campus that you that you might want to be proud of that they're doing.
[00:22:34] So we always think about these platforms. In those different ways. And so, yeah, so it's not a uniform thing.
[00:22:41] Jenni: I think that's great. So you're optimizing each platform. You're optimizing the content for each platform, which I think that's the way to go. Excellent. Um, so do you have one last question for you is.
[00:22:53] So now that you're the boss, is there something that you've done in the [00:23:00] past that maybe you wouldn't agree to now that you're you're
[00:23:04] Kellen: in charge? So, so I, you've, you've seen me for a good portion of my journey of being like, I had my, my My first instinct is always to be a bit rogue in terms of like, I'm just going to try and see what happens.
[00:23:19] And that kind of started from beginning from like a lack. It was a complete lack of oversight that led to me being who I am today and like figuring out on the run. And so I think one of the big things I did was like, when I was, when I was working at Harvard. Um, I was in charge of the instagram. So I and I and I just saw a documentary by the Beastie Boys called I shot this.
[00:23:39] Basically, they gave 50 cameras out to 50 members of the audience and said, just record and then give us the cameras later. And they built a documentary based on all this fan footage. So it's like, that's a cool idea. What if I gave the password of our instagram account to 26 students? Like, I don't even I didn't even know if Instagram would accept that many people with the path with the apple.
[00:23:57] Turns out they do. You could have as many people [00:24:00] posting as you want, I guess. And so I met with all of them. I sent them all emails and I said, this is my idea. And it was based around this thing called housing day where they decide where They learn what house they're going to be moved into after their first year.
[00:24:13] And so it just seems like this really cool thing with all these different perspectives. And I'm like, it's a shame that we only capture it in like pictures. And then you don't get the feeling. It doesn't feel as chaotic as it is in real life. So if I get all these personalities, all these different types of people to post at the same time in stories, cause I want it to feel like it's just like, you're.
[00:24:29] popping up here, you're popping up there. And then every now and then it'd be that one person who really doesn't care about the day. So they're doing something totally different. So it's like a quiet moment. Then it goes. And so like, and I, and so I thought about it and they put it together and it was just, and I thought it was really cool.
[00:24:42] But as you said, I probably wouldn't do it. So, so there's better ways to do it now. Uh, and I think the biggest thing is like, like with stories, like you have those sections and I realized like if you have 26 people and they post Five times each. That is [00:25:00] so many sections and no one's even getting to the end and so, and so I think I learned a lot from that and I can still take that thing like that idea that I originally had, but then I could just say, hey, you, you and you, I want you to all to send us footage from that you're gathering from this day and then we can put it together as a real or short or full YouTube video or tick tock and then we can push it into something that's, um, Yeah.
[00:25:23] That's digestible in 15, 30, 60, 90 seconds. And you can kind of get that same feel. Then you can, then you can actually control like what people see in the beginning. Cause one of the things that we're experimenting now is like, we're learning, like if you had these longer videos, it's, and that include a lot of people, maybe in the first five, three to seven seconds, which is the most important part where we want to grab the most attention, maybe chop it up and introduce.
[00:25:46] Everyone who's going to be a part of it and really quick succession. So then, like, especially if you're doing students, because then people see their friends instantly, like, oh, I know that person, they'll comment, they'll share like, oh, watch this video and then it'll grow. And so, uh, the idea I think is [00:26:00] great.
[00:26:00] And we, I still utilize and think about that to this day and still have elements of it, utilizing, putting it in stories. It was like diminishing returns. Like in the beginning it was cool, but then who's going to, but by the time you get to the 50th post and then you see that you still have 60 left, it's like, I'm done and then you move
[00:26:16] Jenni: on.
[00:26:16] Yeah. That's a long story. So, no, but you, so you learned from it and now you've made it better, but you still have the essence of like, let's try it. Yeah, I do. Let's go. Yeah. You still have that sort of mentality, which I. I think is great. I think Eric's experimentation is
[00:26:32] Kellen: so important. It makes a lot of people nervous.
[00:26:34] Like, I, but especially that, like, I don't even think I get, like, if someone pitched that idea to me now, it's like, we're going to give 26 random people this account. What do you think? I'm like, I probably would still say, okay, let's give it a shot and see what happens. But just like I was that day, I was nervous the whole day that someone was going to do something that they weren't supposed to do and I wouldn't catch it.
[00:26:57] I agree 100 percent though, like I learned a lot from that and it's [00:27:00] just a cool story to kind of like tell people like, well, I've grown a lot in terms of like how, how risk, how non risk averse I was. And it's a little bit different now, but that spirit is still there. It's like, let's try things.
[00:27:15] Jenni: Okay. So Kellen, since this is confessions of a higher ed social media manager, what is your
[00:27:22] Kellen: confession?
[00:27:24] Oh, so I guess it would center around. Let's let's end it. How we started. I like it's like symmetry. So like we start with that story about like how I did the social media report and I got the job at BU. Well, around that time, like there was like months in between grad school and getting hired. Like I think 9 months and I was applying 5 jobs at night.
[00:27:43] I was like working at Best Buy and like a nursing home and just every time I get home 5 jobs at night. And then I started realizing like no one's pulling me in. So I started looking at the application. I started noticing a lot of people were asking for HTML experience like coding experience. I had none.
[00:27:56] I never learned. So I said, I wonder if I could [00:28:00] put that on the application and then teach myself how to code before I got hired. And so I was like, okay, this is, and I was like, it's risky because like, if I get hired before somehow I get hired and I don't know how to code, it's going to come out and I'll lose my job.
[00:28:17] So, but then like, Instantly, I put it on. I applied for a job specifically from the BU job because email marketing and email marketing based off like a little bit of HTML and CSS. So I said, I could do this. And so I told them and I'm like, and I during the whole interview process, like I bought a book at Barnes and Noble.
[00:28:31] I'm looking at Code Academy every single day. I'm like reading multiple chapters, doing exercises. And it turns out at the end of the hiring process, there was an HTML Test that I had to take. Oh,
[00:28:44] Jenni: oh. They were
[00:28:46] Kellen: serious. Yeah, and so like, and then like. I passed the test, and so like, so like, but it's like, thank you.
[00:28:55] Thank you. I'm glad. But yeah, I passed. I ended up passing the test and it was, and I [00:29:00] successfully taught myself in a matter of like a month, how to like, do enough coding to where I could get the job. And then, like, I, from there, I took what I learned and I just learned them to fly more because a lot of coding, especially my time working at MIT, I've learned it's just looking up.
[00:29:13] Like what code works for here? How can I do this? And then insert and I didn't know that at time, but to get my foot in even into the door, I'd had to take a risk. And, uh, because it's like, if no one's hiring me, so I have to do something that's different and it worked out. So I wouldn't even be here if I wouldn't have, like, just stretched a little bit in terms of what I knew.
[00:29:35] Jenni: I love it. I love it. That is a super great confession and a really good tip. And sometimes I think that the best way to learn something is like trial by fire. Yeah. That really gets you up to
[00:29:48] Kellen: speed. And like, I'm a child. Like I, I, I just in college, like I spent a lot of time just had to say I'm a child.
[00:29:53] I'm, I'm a child of like early internet to where like everything was available and like at. For like, whether it was [00:30:00] legitimately available or you, or you just popped it. Like, I think I'm like seeing, seeing that used to have like download. com where you could download trial versions of any software that exists.
[00:30:08] And so I was like, Oh, I taught myself how to do Photoshop based off that. I taught myself how to use like a Fruity Loops for music production. When I had a radio station to be able to put an intro together. I can teach myself how to code and it's like it's a little bit of delusional confidence, but like, I think you have to have that because like social and it's worked with me so far because social is constantly changing.
[00:30:27] So, like, as you get a new platform, you can't be intimidated by what's next. You have to say, oh, I can learn this or I could at least be or I have to. I have to know enough to at least be able to talk to the people who know it well, because I never want to be that person in the room who's like. either has unrealistic expectations because they don't know what they're talking about, and so they're asking too much of people, or that you realize you're so disconnected from what exists that, like, if you were to move, be removed from your management position, you're like, I don't know what else I could do.
[00:30:56] So that's my biggest fear. So
[00:30:58] Jenni: there is wisdom in [00:31:00] that, my friend. I love it. And with that, Kellen, thank you so much. No problem. A great conversation. And thank you for spending your
[00:31:10] Kellen: time with us. Of course. Anytime. Yeah. You know, you reach out to me at any time. I think this was fun. I look forward to hearing the rest of your episodes.
[00:31:17] I'm so glad that you have this show. Very proud of you. So keep it up.
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